Kinda disapointed, need to share my views

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Delta
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Kinda disapointed, need to share my views

Post by Delta »

I was very excited to get a sam460 because it would be like having my old A4000 again but with modern components....well...its not exactly as I expected so far.

Turns out the video card and the S-ATA card are so close to each other the system overheats and crashes. Had to use an extra fan to fix this (so much for the "silent system")

OS4 is not the rock solid system I was expecting, turns out it goes down with about every software I install at least once. Have to fight with config files or hunt for libraries an entire evening just to watch a DVD which plays horribly slow anyways. Most classic games crash, no new games work because of the lack of 3d support.

Is there anyone using a SAM460 or AmigaOne500 whitout the crash-o-rama party? I'd like to hear some encouraging comments from you if you exist because I am afraid this computer will end up on ebay in a couple weeks at this rate...

Thank you for reading my rants ;)
-=Delta
Spectre660
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Re: Kinda disapointed, need to share my views

Post by Spectre660 »

While I dont have a Sam460 there seem to be many who are not having your problems.
The major issues seems to be USB related.
DId you build your own system ? .
What model video card do you have ?. Do you have another one that you could test ?
Do you have the latest Uboot and Radeon HD driver ?
Another area to look at is your power suppy. these can cause issues with the graphics card (had some on a SAm440ex-flex) and USB.
for OS 4.1 issues the Screenblanker causes me problems so I dont run it at all.
Also I have crashes when I run things in the dock like Cpu monitors etc so I stay away from these (It may be some 68k utilities I run causing the issue).
Best way to test OS 4.1 issues is to create a clean boot partition, or CD or SD card and see if some of your crashes go away without other 3rd party stuff being installed .
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cha05e90
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Re: Kinda disapointed, need to share my views

Post by cha05e90 »

Delta wrote:Turns out the video card and the S-ATA card are so close to each other the system overheats and crashes. Had to use an extra fan to fix this (so much for the "silent system")
AFAIK other users have this kind of combination without the need for extra cooling...
OS4 is not the rock solid system I was expecting, turns out it goes down with about every software I install at least once.
Hmm. I migrated a huge software collection from my OS3.9 machines to my OS4.1 setups and installed loads of software from the scratch. Yes, I had crashes - but in the end roughly 80-90% of my applications worked, which isn't that bad for my taste. Maybe I was just lucky or we really use very different software (I you like, I might post/mail a link to my "migration" list...might be useful).
Have to fight with config files or hunt for libraries an entire evening just to watch a DVD
Hm, I personally wouldn't call downloading two archives and unpacking them to the right place "fighting" - but I'm sorry that you feel this way.
which plays horribly slow anyways....no new games work because of the lack of 3d support.
Overlay and full 3D support is pending ansd still in the works AFAIK. Yes, that''s not nice, but it should have been a known fact - but after all my experience I'm sure this will be handled. Using one of the 3D and overlay supported graphics card might help in the meantime.
Most classic games crash,
For classic games RunInUAE (or UAE alone if you are brave enough for manual setup...) should be used. I always thought this is rather straighforward - even on my Amiga 2000/060 with RTG and OS3.9 most "classic" games crash/won't run. Funnily enough my UAE setups on my OS4.1machines are way more compatible with classic games then my real Amigas are... :-)
Thank you for reading my rants ;)
No need to thank - I suppose everyone has his dark moments...I still remember my brand new SAM440ep which was miles away from running flawless, but with every UBoot and OS update it got more stable and more usable. In the meantime it *is* rock stable (at least for my own definition of that...). Maybe it was somewhat easier for me, 'cos I did *not* have (very) high expectations - sometimes this attitude helps... :-)
X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000
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Christopher Follett
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Re: Kinda disapointed, need to share my views

Post by Christopher Follett »

Delta wrote:I was very excited to get a sam460 because it would be like having my old A4000 again but with modern components....well...its not exactly as I expected so far.

Turns out the video card and the S-ATA card are so close to each other the system overheats and crashes. Had to use an extra fan to fix this (so much for the "silent system")

OS4 is not the rock solid system I was expecting, turns out it goes down with about every software I install at least once. Have to fight with config files or hunt for libraries an entire evening just to watch a DVD which plays horribly slow anyways. Most classic games crash, no new games work because of the lack of 3d support.

Is there anyone using a SAM460 or AmigaOne500 whitout the crash-o-rama party? I'd like to hear some encouraging comments from you if you exist because I am afraid this computer will end up on ebay in a couple weeks at this rate...

Thank you for reading my rants ;)
Seems odd, never had a sam show the issues your describing (obviously the library issue is normal, every modern system, you have to do that. When Im coding on PC, sometimes I need extra dll, which I have to search net for).

Where did you buy it from, have you tried contacting them to ask questions?
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Delta
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Re: Kinda disapointed, need to share my views

Post by Delta »

Thanks for the hints guys, guess yesterday I was really fed up to post something non constructive like this. :)

I bought the motherboard, 2G ram and Radeon HD4650 Low profile from Acube in december. I've built the system myself using a mini Flex-ATX case with 275W power supply (which I guess should be enough), a 500GB SATA drive, a SATA DVD-ROM drive and a 4ports sil3114 card.

Ironically i've never had ANY problem using USB devices. The AmigaOne keyboard ans mouse from Amigakit worked flawlessly. Even my wireless mouse and keyboard are working good.
All my drivers and Uboot are the latest release and I run OS4 update 4.

First OS install was perfect, I took the time to read everything and do it step by step, basic system was stable at the beginning.

I do get the regular "all frozen" symptom quite often when I install software. Even killing the task does not save me from a reboot. (been used to do that on windows for the past years so I was expecting OS4 to be similar...)
It got worse when the sil3114 started overheating. The way it is physically setup is that the video card is so close to the sil3114 card that there is about only 5mm between the video fan and the back of the other card. The ventilation from the radeon card is inadequate.

I've heard about controller cards to fit the small PCI slot, is there such a thing? Haven't done any research yet.

So here's what i'll look for at the moment:
-Power supply strong enough?
-Stripping all add-ons and go back to bare OS4 u4 system
-Adding a fan inside the case

Any other suggestions are welcome :)
-=Delta
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Christopher Follett
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Re: Kinda disapointed, need to share my views

Post by Christopher Follett »

Delta wrote:Thanks for the hints guys, guess yesterday I was really fed up to post something non constructive like this. :)

I bought the motherboard, 2G ram and Radeon HD4650 Low profile from Acube in december. I've built the system myself using a mini Flex-ATX case with 275W power supply (which I guess should be enough), a 500GB SATA drive, a SATA DVD-ROM drive and a 4ports sil3114 card.

Ironically i've never had ANY problem using USB devices. The AmigaOne keyboard ans mouse from Amigakit worked flawlessly. Even my wireless mouse and keyboard are working good.
All my drivers and Uboot are the latest release and I run OS4 update 4.

First OS install was perfect, I took the time to read everything and do it step by step, basic system was stable at the beginning.

I do get the regular "all frozen" symptom quite often when I install software. Even killing the task does not save me from a reboot. (been used to do that on windows for the past years so I was expecting OS4 to be similar...)
It got worse when the sil3114 started overheating. The way it is physically setup is that the video card is so close to the sil3114 card that there is about only 5mm between the video fan and the back of the other card. The ventilation from the radeon card is inadequate.

I've heard about controller cards to fit the small PCI slot, is there such a thing? Haven't done any research yet.

So here's what i'll look for at the moment:
-Power supply strong enough?
-Stripping all add-ons and go back to bare OS4 u4 system
-Adding a fan inside the case

Any other suggestions are welcome :)

PSU should be fine, we have one running on a 250w without issue.
First thing I would do, is strip it back as you say, backup your existing install. Then start fresh.
See how it is with the original install of OS4.1 Update 2. If its ok, then update to U3, then test again, then do U4.

This way you should be able to see if there is a problem from the start. Have you tried removing non used modules from the kicklayout.
I know the A1, would keep crashing randomly, due to Sii drivers conflicting (didnt have sii card).

With regard to GFX and sata card, they should be fine even though they are close.
I have built loads of systems and never had one issue or crash (overheat). I normally add some plastic to the sata card to stop any chance of it shorting again the GFX card.
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http://www.ultimateamiga.co.uk (Home of SONY PSP Amiga Emulator and AMOS Factory)
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davebraco
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Re: Kinda disapointed, need to share my views

Post by davebraco »

Hello Delta,

Sad to hear that. I have a similar setup but I swap the SATA card for a sound one running OS4.1 Update 4. (so i don't have optical drive anymore)

I bought a complete system from ACube. (in a low profile case)
I've added a Fan to bring some cool air in the case (next to the 460 cpu)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/73698583@N ... 834355352/

No stability problem to report. Of course it crashes/freeze sometimes but can be up for several days without problem.

So I will also suggest you to install a fresh system.

What file system/parameters are you using for the AmigaOS partition?
Is DMA enabled for the hard disk and for the Optical Drive?
What program are you using (which froze the computer)?
µA1 256mo SATA -> lend to a dev
A1200PPC 256Mo MediatorTX Radeon9250 SATA RTL8029 SOLO-1
Sam440ep 533mhz 512mo 64Go SSD
Sam460ex 1150mhz 2Go RadeonHD 6570LP ENVY24HT
AmigaOne X1000 4Go SSD R9 270X Catweasel MK4
AmigaOne X5000 -> work in progress
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mechanic
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Re: Kinda disapointed, need to share my views

Post by mechanic »

Hi Delta

I once had a small case for my uA1c and wound up with a heat troubles.

The problem was solved by allowing more air into the case, although an extra fan may be the better solution.

Can't pump it out if new can't get in.
A-Eon A1X1000 ATI HD6850, Creative SB1570 PCIe, RTL8139 net PCI.
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Re: Kinda disapointed, need to share my views

Post by ssolie »

Sounds like you have an overheating problem which needs addressing before we can delve into the software side of things.

Regarding the Radeon HD4650, the RadeonHD driver is incomplete and does not support overlay nor 3D hardware acceleration (i.e. no Warp3D & MiniGL). Hans can tell you more about the overlay support (for video) but I believe he is planning to implement that. The 3D acceleration is also being addressed but via a new driver system (Gallium3D) which is not due until AmigaOS 4.2.

In the mean time, you may want to consider downgrading to a video card that does not require the RadeonHD driver nor Gallium3D for full functionality.
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djrikki
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Re: Kinda disapointed, need to share my views

Post by djrikki »

The 3D graphics driver and overlay is something all parties involved have been trying their best to inform potential customers all about prior to purchase.

I own the SAM 460 myself and have no problems with overheating.
Have to fight with config files or hunt for libraries an entire evening just to watch a DVD which plays horribly slow anyways.
Yes this is rather annoying, third-party developers should be making more of a concerted effort towards making life easy for end users. Simply including libraries and other dependancies in their distribution wherever possible or alternatively download them during install on the fly - I know I do with Jack (jackforamigaos.wordpress.com). I guess your probably referring to DVPlayer that requires LibDVDCSS (or something) to play encrypted DVDs. Having used Macs for a number of years and returning back on to the Amiga scene I know how frustrating and lame it is to actually have to open a Readme.txt and do crap ourselves manually!

In the same breath the OS needs more mandatory contributions for both the end-user and developer, e.g. bog standard stuff like Curl and Wget- so when developers need to create Installer scripts we know with 100% certainty that we can download a dependancy if its required. I laughed when I first got my SAM 460 and found out LHA didn't even come as standard - wtf!
Also some more standard Assignments wouldn't go a miss, everyone expects Documents:, Downloads:, Images:, Music: and Videos: these days.

Simple stuff like including the SDK on the Install CD/Archive and offering the user to Uncheck the box if they don't want it is much better than expecting the user to download it themselves.
I hope when AmigaOS 4.2 is released it is bundled with loads of approved and latest versions of command line programs, third-party libraries and dependancies - especially as once the Netbook is released there is the potential for 100s if not 1000s of new users - first impressions count.

I am quite happy to download a 1GB+ OS Update if it makes life easier and pleasant for everyone.
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