@ChrisH
Is the better ventilation of your new case provided by active cooling? (spinning fans) or is it just more space?
Sam440ep_setup breaks USB with Update 3
Re: Sam440ep_setup breaks USB with Update 3
Yes, a fan.DAX wrote:@ChrisH
Is the better ventilation of your new case provided by active cooling? (spinning fans) or is it just more space?
Re: Sam440ep_setup breaks USB with Update 3
@ChrisH
I recently had an issue that is not directly related but illustrates the fact that a lot of things (hardware & software) can affect USB mouse/keyboard preformance. Since other SAM Flex 800 users seem to have had some success in stabalizing their systems by adding additional cooling, I decided to try a case fan & CPU fan (crudely mounted). The case fan produced no change and the CPU fan improved the situation (50-60% improvement) marginally. I removed the fans and returned to downclocking to 733/122. I then discovered that when I copied files TO a hard-disk the mouse pointer froze and the copy was super-slow (slower than a USB1 copy). Copying FROM a hard-disk worked normally. I reopened my SAM case, removed the SATA connector from the hard-disk and reconnected it, resulting in the return of normal disk operation. I don't know why disk issues would affect mouse input.
My point is that a lot of factors (including hardware & connections) seem to affect USB performance. My experience and experiences reported by others in various forums seem to confirm that there is a USB problem related to the use of some hubs for keyboard/mouse input but I'm not totally convinced that SAM440ep_setup is the "sole" cause of your problem. It appears to me that other factors can affect USB input device performance too.
I recently had an issue that is not directly related but illustrates the fact that a lot of things (hardware & software) can affect USB mouse/keyboard preformance. Since other SAM Flex 800 users seem to have had some success in stabalizing their systems by adding additional cooling, I decided to try a case fan & CPU fan (crudely mounted). The case fan produced no change and the CPU fan improved the situation (50-60% improvement) marginally. I removed the fans and returned to downclocking to 733/122. I then discovered that when I copied files TO a hard-disk the mouse pointer froze and the copy was super-slow (slower than a USB1 copy). Copying FROM a hard-disk worked normally. I reopened my SAM case, removed the SATA connector from the hard-disk and reconnected it, resulting in the return of normal disk operation. I don't know why disk issues would affect mouse input.
My point is that a lot of factors (including hardware & connections) seem to affect USB performance. My experience and experiences reported by others in various forums seem to confirm that there is a USB problem related to the use of some hubs for keyboard/mouse input but I'm not totally convinced that SAM440ep_setup is the "sole" cause of your problem. It appears to me that other factors can affect USB input device performance too.
AmigaOne X1000 with 2GB memory - OS4.1 FE
Re: Sam440ep_setup breaks USB with Update 3
I agree with your assessment.xenic wrote:My point is that a lot of factors (including hardware & connections) seem to affect USB performance. My experience and experiences reported by others in various forums seem to confirm that there is a USB problem related to the use of some hubs for keyboard/mouse input but I'm not totally convinced that SAM440ep_setup is the "sole" cause of your problem. It appears to me that other factors can affect USB input device performance too.
There is one confirmed software problem (crash) in the USB stack that has been fixed. There are other issues as well but they seem to be related to non-conforming USB devices more than actual errors in the USB stack itself. I have also seen one report which was caused by bad USB cabling. With so many variables playing a part simultaneously it is quite a challenge to isolate issues.
I certainly would remove tools like Sam440ep_setup from the mix until things settle down. There is no point in adding yet more variables.
ExecSG Team Lead
Re: Sam440ep_setup breaks USB with Update 3
If you read what I wrote, I was not actually blaming Sam440ep_setup as the root cause! I suspect a bug in the USB stack (perhap some kind of race condition) which Sam440ep_setup affects due to changing timings slightly.xenic wrote:I'm not totally convinced that SAM440ep_setup is the "sole" cause of your problem
I can't be sure yet, but I believe I have very occasionally seen USB lock-up even when Sam440ep_setup was not running. This would support my theory a some bug in the USB stack (although it would not rule out other possibilities).
Re: Sam440ep_setup breaks USB with Update 3
Someone else with an ITX-sized Sam440 has reported that removing Sam440ep_setup fixes his Update 3 mouse loosing problem.
I really need to backup, format, reinstall AmigaOS4.1u3 from scratch, and see if Sam440ep_setup still causes problems. Then I'll be more comfortable about posting a bug report...
I really need to backup, format, reinstall AmigaOS4.1u3 from scratch, and see if Sam440ep_setup still causes problems. Then I'll be more comfortable about posting a bug report...
Re: Sam440ep_setup breaks USB with Update 3
@ChrisH
One interesting consideration is that Mike uses a "TheRedOne" machine which is the most cluttered and with the least available space inside, and he reports for the problem not to be sporadic but super frequent.
You have a better case and the problem is more sporadic.
Behaviour is different and there is also more people without the problem at all, thus the culprit must have to do with how local machines are set OR, there might be better samples out there which accommodate the new "more stressful conditions" better (it is the case for 800Mhz CPUs).
I don't know if related or if it would be of any help but while trying different clock speeds (downclocking) I found out that 111 - 111 results in incredibly stable system, for example, using a fan-less case, I can do any abuse to Kernel 53.22 with the following settings: 778 - 111 - 111, HOWEVER, by using 733 - 147 - 73 I still get a freeze in the most extreme conditions (even though the CPU clock it's lowered).
What I get out of this, is that even when downclocking there might be some configurations which are more deleterious than "higher" ones which benefits from more compatible FSB/VideoBus settings.
Additional tests you could try then would be: use the HyperClock utility and downclock the system to 111 - 111 (keeping the standard CPU clock) and see if it helps. Additionally you can try 556 - 111 - 111, the latter just to check if it works.
Might be worth a try before a clean install...(heck I made two and were totally useless, if I had installed the very powerful side-fan, I could have kept my original installation).
One interesting consideration is that Mike uses a "TheRedOne" machine which is the most cluttered and with the least available space inside, and he reports for the problem not to be sporadic but super frequent.
You have a better case and the problem is more sporadic.
Behaviour is different and there is also more people without the problem at all, thus the culprit must have to do with how local machines are set OR, there might be better samples out there which accommodate the new "more stressful conditions" better (it is the case for 800Mhz CPUs).
I don't know if related or if it would be of any help but while trying different clock speeds (downclocking) I found out that 111 - 111 results in incredibly stable system, for example, using a fan-less case, I can do any abuse to Kernel 53.22 with the following settings: 778 - 111 - 111, HOWEVER, by using 733 - 147 - 73 I still get a freeze in the most extreme conditions (even though the CPU clock it's lowered).
What I get out of this, is that even when downclocking there might be some configurations which are more deleterious than "higher" ones which benefits from more compatible FSB/VideoBus settings.
Additional tests you could try then would be: use the HyperClock utility and downclock the system to 111 - 111 (keeping the standard CPU clock) and see if it helps. Additionally you can try 556 - 111 - 111, the latter just to check if it works.
Might be worth a try before a clean install...(heck I made two and were totally useless, if I had installed the very powerful side-fan, I could have kept my original installation).
Re: Sam440ep_setup breaks USB with Update 3
@DAX
Also, I really don't think your problem is causing mine. I have a stock (667MHz) Sam440, and have never seen any hints that 667MHz Sams suffer any overheating issues. And this is supported by the fact that your problem disappears when you reduce it's overclocking.
INCORRECT. I specifically said the newer case did not have any effect on my problem. Things only improved when I found (by trial & error) that Sam440ep_setup was the trouble-maker.You have a better case and the problem is more sporadic
Also, I really don't think your problem is causing mine. I have a stock (667MHz) Sam440, and have never seen any hints that 667MHz Sams suffer any overheating issues. And this is supported by the fact that your problem disappears when you reduce it's overclocking.
Re: Sam440ep_setup breaks USB with Update 3
I didn't say my findings were related to your problems only they might be worth a try (for free 
), consider that a rear fan didn't cause any improvement whatsoever in my case either, only the replacement of the kernel or Kickstart did (untill I installed the powerful side-thingy). Besides your CPU is 667Mhz, but Acube is known to overclock their samples to the best performance they can get out of them, so I wouldn't be surprised if some 667Mhz CPUs are actually "lower ones" that were found to operate well at higher clocks.
Also, PC mobos often have aluminum or copper heat sinks not only on the CPU but on other components as well, could it be that on 440EP other components (thus not the CPU) get too hot and would welcome a tiny sink like I've seen on PCs (or a huge thing blowing air out)?
Although our problems might be unrelated, one thing I learned is that as long as there are many many users not experiencing zilch while having everything on, the problem lies on the (local/particular) HW. A few might have the same issue for similar reasons.
), consider that a rear fan didn't cause any improvement whatsoever in my case either, only the replacement of the kernel or Kickstart did (untill I installed the powerful side-thingy). Besides your CPU is 667Mhz, but Acube is known to overclock their samples to the best performance they can get out of them, so I wouldn't be surprised if some 667Mhz CPUs are actually "lower ones" that were found to operate well at higher clocks.Also, PC mobos often have aluminum or copper heat sinks not only on the CPU but on other components as well, could it be that on 440EP other components (thus not the CPU) get too hot and would welcome a tiny sink like I've seen on PCs (or a huge thing blowing air out)?
Although our problems might be unrelated, one thing I learned is that as long as there are many many users not experiencing zilch while having everything on, the problem lies on the (local/particular) HW. A few might have the same issue for similar reasons.
Re: Sam440ep_setup breaks USB with Update 3
Interesting read. Since installing update 3 on my Sam440-flex (733MHz) my keyboard/mouse have locked up several times, usually keyboard only or first with mouse locking up shortly after that. Only solution has been to power off and back on. Not a problem I had experienced before update 3, I had assumed (until reading this) it was related to some bug with MUI-OWB. Will try taking the Sam setup tool out of WBStartup and see if the problem persists.