AmigaOS Classic 4.1 Update2 fails to install [SOLVED]

[Calgor]

Instead of the ZorRAM as a swap option, you can try to use a CSPPC UWSCSI hard drive/CF as a swap (I need to try this myself) which would also free up a Zorro slot if required and you can use the ZorRAM in another computer. You can see for yourself which swap method you think is better for you regarding speed and CPU use.

I was going to use the X-Surf myself but mine was faulty from brand new. Yes that would probably be better than the 8139 as it will work in both OS4.x and OS3.9 and it has clockports etc. Do not know about which will give you faster network speeds with less CPU.

For the SB PCI 128, you hook up the paula external sound output to the SB PCI 128 sound input, then hook up the SB PCI 128 sound output to your speakers. Someone can correct me if there is something else to it, as I don't use that card.

I think you have the hardware to use OS4.x just fine, it's just a matter of whether, as you say, you want to put your rare hardware such as Deneb in this machine or use it in another. I would suggest you dual boot with OS3.9 in this machine for a while and try it out. It takes advantage of "compositing" with the Radeon - you might have to turn it on in the prefs as I cannot remember whether it is on by default in Classics. You can have transparent windows, and I expect in future the workbench environment will be a lot nicer taking more advantage of the power of the Radeon. In terms of software, yes OS3.9 is compatible with a lot more especially as the Classic has AGA chipset and Paula, so I guess it depends what applications you would be running whether you use OS3.9 or OS4.x more. What apps do you usually use your Amiga for that you couldn't in OS4.x?

[danbeaver]

I appreciate all the help!

I would assume that the ZorRam makes a better SWAP partition, over one of the Atlas V SCSI-3's, but at this point I have quit assuming anything. The only program I use that runs under OS4.1 is Final Writer (PageStream and every other program I use, no matter what OS Version listed, just fail to run, black-listed or not). Most programs that say they are compatible with OS4.1 must run on other platforms, not an A4000T. I guess it is , "Good luck to them." Do any of you remember a time when software came with a [tangible] manual and not a booklet or on-line FAQ. The manuals for the PDP-11/60 I used in the early '80's had a 24 volume set on a 2 shelf unit. Final Writer's and PageStreams are at least an inch thick (2.54 cm's).

I may pull the ZorRam and put it aside for use with the FastATA and Deneb in my otherwise new A4000T when I get around to "fitting her out" for use. She lays virgin is her shipping box, cables still tightly folded in place.

Does anyone know why I can "see" CF cards in HDTools/Media hard disk program, but can't "write to sector 0?" And subsequently use such media in my SCSI card reader? If I use the in-bred IDE or (another) ACard SCSI-IDE ($$) interface they seem to be OK...

I wonder if the Mozilla build browser runs on the Classic 4.1 OS.

[Calgor]

If your hard drive is fast enough, the UWSCSI can do 30MB/s whereas ZorRAM would be somewhere between around 3-12MB/s but with lower latency. So maybe a fast CF on the UWSCSI chain using UWSCSI-IDE adapter solely for SWAP might be fastest.

Regarding Media Toolbox, you might need to open a new thread for that to gain attention to that specific issue, I am more experienced with OS3.x HDToolBox instead.

Regarding the SCSI card reader, I have one but have not yet used it (if ever). To use both the PCMCIA slot and another card slot, from memory, you might have to enable multiple LUNs in the CSPPC boot menu for that SCSI ID. But that would work for OS3.x, not sure what it would look like in OS4.x as that I think ignores some of the boot menu settings. Would suggest to get it working properly in OS3.9 first before looking at OS4.x. There is information around the internet on that, I think the best is from the website where that reader can be purchased from new.

For the programs that you are not getting to run, I see no reason why they should work on other OS4.x machines but not the A4000T. You could open a new thread for those programs if you like, I don't have much experience in that area.

Timberwolf should run in classic (albeit slowly) - why don't you first upgrade to the latest classic OS version, then sort out which SWAP method works best for you (load up heaps of programs), then give it a go.

[danbeaver]

Thanks Again!

I didn't know the ZIII vs SCSI3 access speed -- very interesting and useful information. I can put a CF (IDE based) on the UWSCSI chain, but then I would (likely) put my speedy IDE DVD-R/W back on the SCSI.device bus -- it probably is best there.

I have a SCSI card reader (Mech's A4000T.com) in my A4000T and my A2500; they work like a charm. Under CSPPC, I have 5 LUN's for the device allowed and they are all seen in OS4.1's Media Toolbox. The GVP SCSI-II (3.15 ROM) in the A2500 sees all LUN's too, but one can't select the LUN's seen. Fast plug-and-play access, able to swap whole OS's in a single bound -- (non-mouse'd) reboot, and useful for backup's that are bootable. The card reader is a real life saver and I'll start a new thread on that once my Ami is sewn-up and looking pretty.

I would not want to open a whole can-of-worms thread on the "OS4.1 compatible" programs that don't run under Classic OS 4.1.... Much less all the programs I use under OS 3.9 that don't run. I try not to be negative [well THAT negative, and don't want to slow down the Web to a crawl]

I'm not sure what you mean by, "why don't you first upgrade to the latest classic OS version?" If I could access the web or a USB thumb drive (I'll get there is a few hours), I'd put in place Updates 3 & 4, but to the best of my knowledge, but I have the feeling we are at a end-of-life cycle with OS progress for Classic's, i.e., as Woody Woodpecker said, "That's-all-folks!"

-Dan

[Calgor]

My comment on the UWSCSI speed may have been a bit misleading as 30MB/s is the speed under OS3.9. Not sure about under OS4.x but it is probably lower due to less optimisation but still faster than ZorRAM. But don't forget latency may make the ZorRAM end up being faster. Only if you try will you know what seems faster for you.

If something works or does not work, I don't see it as being negative. It either does or doesn't, and it may in the future or it may not. I believe that there is now better integrated support with RunInUAE in the latest OS version update 4 so you might have more luck now with some programs. If when you upgrade to update 4 and you are having trouble with RunInUAE you could then ask questions. Hopefully someone else can chime in about RunInUAE on classics as I have not heard about anyone running it there.

By upgrade to the latest OS version, I mean to update to OS4.1 Update 4. That is required to be able to run Timberwolf. Just use your Deneb, or your Spider in OS3.9 to copy the updates to your e.g. SFS/01 partition in OS4.x.

Currently as you can see classics are up to date with the rest of the systems (with the special exception of X1000) at OS4.1update4. What makes you think there will not be further OS progress on Classics? Apart from the support of extra Mediator PCI cards, is there anything else you would like to see on Classic? I am hoping RunInUAE will solve much of your apps problems and it will be fast enough but I don't use that.

[danbeaver]

Well thanks again, I hadn't heard of RunInUAE.

I would have gotten Update 4 on sooner, but the Ami teardown left my OS 3.9 partition on the "ramlib program error #80000004" track (and I unfortunately made a bad decision and made a backup of that state) and am rebuilding it and thus slowed down in my 4.1 updating. But I long to try Timberwolf!

I'm afraid that we (well probably "I") might be "off-thread," but I see more activity with Emulators (UAE & A-Forever) on other hardware (Windows & Mac) and Newer Amiga-like comparables with hot, current hardware. Harv Laser's AmigaZone hasn't had a software upload in ~6 years, and Aminet sees a few a week, but not much classic related. Some of the great new Classic hardware just comes and goes, for example: Deneb, X-Surf, etc. A given production runs occurs and thats all-she-wrote. One then spends the rest his/her time scouring AmiBay, eBay, and the like. The same with software: Vapor's Voyager is very nice, but a now only a demo, AmiTCP V4 -- demo, IDEFix -- scoured from Amiga Forever. Final Writer went to Win 95 then POOF! Sad, sad sad

I'll bet the moderator X's that out and sends me a warning.

[alekc]

Couple of loose thoughts for now - I'll try to reply to some other issues later.

First of all think of AOS 4.1U4 and some software not working (Storm C is a great example) as of Windows XP and newer when some DOS programs stopped working under Windows because MS dropped support and fixed some vulnerabilities as well. This is the price of progress. You either get newer system and some compatibility issues with software that is 10 or more years old but you can move forward or stay with that more than a decade old applications. Also it is not possible to support every single classic Amiga hardware and since classic are already stuffed with dozens of expansions and their combinations are unlimited (not to mention some glitches of 20 years old hardware itself) it ends with some unexpected behaviors and errors hard to track down.

The obvious solution is to keep OS 3.9 partition to be able run those few apps and hardware that UAE/AOS4.1 can't handle.

As for Timberwolf I would advise not to use it under 4.1 classic - even A4000s with all the expansions have to little resources for it to use it normally like OWB or IBrowse for example on the same setup.

[danbeaver]

Thank you AlekC,

Very good explanation of the issues of aging technologies. I look forward to further insights you have on the future of the Amiga Classic in both hardware and software progression.

-Dan

[danbeaver]

Just to add fuel to the fire,

I put my Deneb in my Ami, with the install jumper set; copied the necessary files over (not Subway.device) did a Poseidon install and a Deneb install (no Clock port). Then after switching the jumper back, again started the reboot cycle over-and-over. Tried ROM mode (no), the ZII mode (No) and could not find a setting other than install that does not cause a "purple screen-to flashy green led-back to purple screen. Got frustrated and sewed Ami back up (people visiting soon). She was otherwise fine until the Deneb when into useful mode. Had planned on using a USB ethernet dongle for web access.
Any thoughts?

[alekc]

Thank you AlekC,

Very good explanation of the issues of aging technologies. I look forward to further insights you have on the future of the Amiga Classic in both hardware and software progression.

You are welcome. I'm a great fun of classic hardware and I'm grateful that Hyperion decided to still support such old and slow hardware bringing some more life to it while coping with a lot of limiations and still being able to push AOS 4.1 further for newer hardware. I can't think of any bigger software package released in recent years for classic Amigas than AmigaOS 4.1 (with 4.0 exception obviously). However keep in mind that Commodore was always quite poor at producing compatible hardware even within their own line of products. Just differences between motherboards, custom chips and PSUs provide enough irritating problems for software compatibility and stability without even touching different phase5 products and additional hardware we stuffed into our Amigas over the years. A lot of hardware come from PC world and was more of a quick hack to make it working on m68k and not PPC at some point.

Just to add fuel to the fire,

I put my Deneb in my Ami, with the install jumper set; copied the necessary files over (not Subway.device) did a Poseidon install and a Deneb install (no Clock port). Then after switching the jumper back, again started the reboot cycle over-and-over. Tried ROM mode (no), the ZII mode (No) and could not find a setting other than install that does not cause a "purple screen-to flashy green led-back to purple screen. Got frustrated and sewed Ami back up (people visiting soon). She was otherwise fine until the Deneb when into useful mode. Had planned on using a USB ethernet dongle for web access.
Any thoughts?

The first very important question is: revision of your Buster. The second important thing is: gfx card you are using with Mediator and slots you use both for gfx card and Deneb. For example on my config I am able to run Deneb in ZII mode when CyberVisions or Voodoo3/5 cards are used. The same motherboard works perfectly fine in ZIII mode with Deneb when Radeon is being used.

Try to run Deneb in ZII mode and disable Poseidon to start during system boot and run it manually from Workbench - this should make it working. If not let us know but before that one more important question: does Deneb in such setup work under 3.9?