Problem with some data types

AmigaOne X5000 platform specific issues.
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kilaueabart
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Problem with some data types

Post by kilaueabart »

I have a lot of old audio and graphic files on my Amiga from before my big crash a couple years ago that are very important to me. Now that my machine has been repaired, I find that I cannot open most of them. Clicking most of the icons either gets me something like "Unknown data type for (file location and name)" or else crashes the machine.

Some that work OK include .pdf, .doc, .ps, .htm(l), and any that are listed as Type Ascii. .wav seems to work, but I only have one of those to listen to.

Regular machine crashers include .iff, .jpg, .png. I did find one .iff that brings up a FinalWriter text without crashing. I haven't checked many others because I usually have to reboot the machine. I have tried several of them.

Besides the ones that work and the ones that crash me are the "unknown data type" ones, including .mid, .wma, .gif, .fw, .xls. Most of the files I care about are in one of those datatypes.

I haven't been able to find a clue, so far, as to why those now troublesome datatypes got that way or how to fix them.
Roland
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Re: Problem with some data types

Post by Roland »

@kilaueabart

AmigaOS keeps the datatypes in "sys:classes/datatypes". If you open a Cli-window and type there "list sort=n sys:classes/datatypes", you get an alphabetical list what is already installed on your machine. I'm sure peole here can give you tips which datatypes should be added there, and from where to find them :-).
- Roland -
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kilaueabart
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Re: Problem with some data types

Post by kilaueabart »

Thank you for your response. I had already looked at classes/datatypes. It lists alphabetically without the sort=n, 29 files. None of them match the datatypes that work OK unless text.datatype counts for .txt files.

Two of three file types, .png, .iff, .and jpg, that crash my machine, are unrepresented there as well, unless jpeg.datatype counts for .jpg and/or aiff.datatype counts for .iff files. There is a png.datatype (76824 ----rw-d) that doesn't prevent .png files from crashing my OS4.

There is another png.datatype, as well as duplicate gif.datatype and tiff.datatype a level up in classes/.

Besides classes/datatypes, I also have a largely similar devs/datatypes drawer, 36 files (about half are .info), including PNG, AIFF, JPEG, etc.

So far I have not run into anything that clearly relates to the "unknown datatypes" .mid, .wma, .fw (FinalWriter) or .xls tags, but .gif files are called "unknown datatypes" in spite of the availability of classes/datatypes/gifdatatype, classes/gif.datatype, and devs/datatypes/GIF. Very mysterious and frustrating.
Roland
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Re: Problem with some data types

Post by Roland »

@kilaueabart

Unfortunately I do not understand much about the datatypes and how they work (and why there two different drawers for them?!).

The few extra datataypes I have installed on my own system are from here:

http://os4depot.net/index.php?function= ... t=datatype

Maybe you could download some of them and see if they fix anything?
- Roland -
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kilaueabart
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Re: Problem with some data types

Post by kilaueabart »

That got my hopes up but I have been unable to find anything useful on the site you suggest. I guess I am going to have to study a lot more and learn what is supposed to happen when I click on a file name with tags like .png, .jpg/.jpeg, etc., things that seem so basic that they should still be built in, as they were all those years I used versions of Amiga. In a pinch I can make those files available to the Linux side and at least look at or listen to them, but I'd rather skip that extra step
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nbache
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Re: Problem with some data types

Post by nbache »

Try, for one of the files you can't view/run, using the information window of the file's icon: Click one on the icon, then right-click and select Information in the menu (alternatively press Right Amiga + I when the icon has been selected. That's the letter 'I' - for Information.).

Do you have anything in the field "Default tool"? If yes, do you have a program in that path and of that name which can display/play the file? Typically MultiView or (from Enhancer software) MultiViewer.

If this fails, tell us how it fails and what any error message says exactly.

Best regards,

Niels
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Raziel
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Re: Problem with some data types

Post by Raziel »

@kilaueabart

from my limited knowledge:

DEVS:Datatypes
hold the descriptor file, which is pointing to the datatype files that are in use, e.g. PNG is using the png.datatype, AK-GIF is using the ak-gif.datatype etc.

classes/datatypes
hold the datatypes files that are used by e.g. multiview

the datatype files you have in classes/ (one level above classes/datatypes) are probably copied there to do some tests (someone, probably you :-) ) once tried out new versions of datatypes and simply moved them up a level. Once you sorted out the crashes, you can delete them.

But not now...

.mid is MIDI
.wma is Windows Media Audio
both are useless if you haven' t got a player than can play themback.
If you haven' t got a player explicitely paired with those files, Multiview will always try to open them instead and should either bring up a warning about a binary file opening or throw an error, but should *not* crash.

...

This being a case of phone-line-fixing i suggest you find *one* file that is *always* crashing and go from there.

Having such file you can start to look for the culprit of the crash.

I *think* you might have datatypes installed that *might* make use of hardware features you don't (yet?) have or which aren' t (yet) turned on (you got your miggy back from repair, right?).

Maybe you got WarpOS datatypes installed (and even worse, renamed), maybe the datatypes are "optimized versions" for something you are not using right now?

Anyway...once you have a file, e.g. a .png picture which will always crash on double-click, start to inspect what it does.
take a look at it's information, like @nbache suggested, maybe the "default tool" points to something that *is* still installed, but will crash on it's own too, because of missing dependancies or a broken binary or whatever.

Then you can open up Prefs/DefIcons, search for "png", open up the Information for §def_png" and see if the "Default tool" there is borked.

You still have lots of options, mate, don't give up yet
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Entire ecosystems are collapsing.
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kilaueabart
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Re: Problem with some data types

Post by kilaueabart »

It's really great having the two of you helping me.

Great clue, Niels. My first impression, when icon Information for a system-crasher .png was "MultiViewer:MultiViewer," was that it was the solution. I had never noticed MultiViewer with an "r" before, nor had I realized that I had a drawer of that name containing a program of that name.

Trying Information of a .pdf icon got me "SYS:UKtilities/AmiPDF/amiPDF" which struck me as much more likely.

But then it turned out that the "unknown" .mid and .wma icons were also marked "MultiViewer:MultiViewer," as well as a bunch that play just fine, including .txt, .wav, .mp3 and .gif. So now I'll have to start working through the info and suggestions Raziel was kind enough to list.
I used to play .mid and .wma regularly. I must have had "a player that could play themback." What could have happened to it/them, and how do I replace them?

I have a lot of files that always crash: .iff, .pdf, Now I have to figure out how to look for the culprit.
Okay, I chose a fairly small .jpg, a picture of lave that I took on the Big Island many years ago, Icon Information has, under File,
Name: bigislandlava.jpg (Project); Version: ?(underlined); Last change: Thursday june 22 2023 9:31 PM; Size: 13,997 bytes (8 blocks); Protection: Read, Write, Delete, and Execute are checked, Archive and Script are unchecked;; Comment: blank.
Under Icon,
Default tool: a file icon followed by "Multiviewer:Multiviewer. If I click on that icon, I apparently have the opportunity to change the second "Multiviewer" to Rexx (drawer), replacedeftool 255.9 kB, or MultiViewer.debug (1.5 Mb).
Stack size: 32768; Priority: 0; Start from: Workbench; Tool types: a blank rectangle.

I see nothing there that strikes me as any kind of clue.
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Raziel
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Re: Problem with some data types

Post by Raziel »

i see something :)

*Multiviewer* is from the Enhancer package and both Enhancer and *Multiviewer* have been surely updated since you resurrected your Amiga.

i know for a fact, that some internal classes of Enhancer got an update which *Multiviewer* relies on and i can also remember a short lived thread, over at amigans.net, were people complained about *Multiviewer* crashes, until they sorted the updates out.

so, two more options
1- get all the Enhancer updates...or better yet, reinstall the latest Enhancer release (might cost you green paper)
2- take your crashing .iff file, go to "Information/Icon" and change *Multiviewer* to **ultiview* (mind bothe the spelling and the correct paths, *Multiview* should be in sys:utilities, but it doesn't feature it's own subdirectory)

If *Multiview* displays the crashing .iff file fine, then you can rule out a datatypes problem...then it will be *Multiviwer*s fault (go back to option 1)

.mid/.midi files, see http://www.os4depot.net/index.php?funct ... ool=simple
i find wildmidi the easiest to use for a quick replay (i did the port, if you have questions, don't hesitate to ask)
camdplay is great if you got midi hardware

.wma files, see http://www.amigaamp.de/download.shtml
i don't exactly know about .wma support, but AmigaAmp plays back nearly everything, so give it a spin

and, as always, have phun :D
People are dying.
Entire ecosystems are collapsing.
We are in the beginning of a mass extinction.
And all you can talk about is money and fairytales of eternal economic growth.
How dare you!
– Greta Thunberg
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kilaueabart
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Re: Problem with some data types

Post by kilaueabart »

I am going to break this into pieces, because my machine crashed a few minutes ago and I want to be sure to get this on its way.

You reming me of a number of things that have been puzzling me. First, when I boot I get a screen that has this on it:

"choose a configuration to boot:
AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition Stable (Volume AltBoot)
AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition (Volume SSDWorkbench)"

The launch just keeps going without giving me a chance to choose. I wouldn't know which any way.
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