Jack-like tool as a standard in AmigaOS4

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HKvalhe
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Re: Jack-like tool as a standard in AmigaOS4

Post by HKvalhe »

I'm not trying to similar AmigaOS with other operativ systems, whether that being AmigaOS4 or another AmigaOS. AmigaOS is unique, compared to the others.

What i am saying is that it would be nice to have a standard, because not all programs you find on OS4Depot are great ones or deserve to be called "AmigaOS4 native" programs.
You have good programs and bad programs/tools or what they might be. The difficulty might be to find the good ones that are suitable to bring AmigaOS, in this case AmigaOS4 platform
as modern and state-of-the-art as possible.

Yes, i know there is OS4Depot.net, but a Contribution is not that bad either. That way you don't have to walk through a lot of maps and sections just to find your favourite tool or program.
Still, as a Contribution, the user still has a free choice of what program and tool to install as an extra to AmigaOS4. That shouldn't be a problem.

I never tried to similar AmigaOS4 with other platforms, but it's important to be realistic and face the truth. AmigaOS4 needs to be brought up to the standards of today as much as possible.

Like i said, i want the Amiga to become a big name again. I want it to be considered important, and MORE than a hobby system. A professional, serious system. I KNOW Amiga can do that again. It's not a question of IF, but WHEN.

That's my philophosy, and it will be my philophosy until i die. Because i love the Amiga and always did. That will never change.

And Raziel, don't take it personal, but even that you are right on many things, your lack of faith in the Amiga is not really good. The last thing we need is pessimism...
Last edited by HKvalhe on Tue May 21, 2013 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Helge Kvalheim, Norway
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Raziel
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Re: Jack-like tool as a standard in AmigaOS4

Post by Raziel »

HKvalhe wrote: [SNIP]...repetitive...[SNIP]

Like i said, i want the Amiga to become a big name again. I want it to be considered important, and MORE than a hobby system. A professional, serious system. I KNOW Amiga can do that again. It's not a question of IF, but WHEN.
And you really think you can achieve that by adding multi-use tools to the OS as contribution?
Well, me wonders then why Linux isn't the universal leading OS by now... :lol:

Instead of trying to force your ideas of your "personal best" OS through developer channels and draw away resources you should start contributing by doing anything that adds something useful to the OS.

Start by creating a Contributions CD for AmigaOS4 the way you want it and try to get all the permissions for addition to that CD...

You can also paint icons, make music, create backdrops, heck you could even learn to port or code...
That's my philophosy, and it will be my philophosy until i die. Because i love the Amiga and always did. That will never change.
:roll:
It's a computer, man, a dead machine that neither will save world hunger nor bring world peace.
As i said, it's your life, if you want to commit your lifespan to your "philosophy" so be it.
Just stop waving your "philosophy" into everyones face that might think different...
And Raziel, don't take it personal, but even that you are right on many things, your lack of faith in the Amiga is VERY disturbing, and that's not good publishy.
I don't know what "publishy" is (probably something to eat or reindeer fur?)

Regarding Public Relations...i'm in no way affiliated with any of the developers or creaters of AmigaOS4, just a mere user.
If being "VERY disturbing" in your world is the same as being realistic...well, i'd rather stay distrubing then.

oh...and to get back on topic...imho Jack or a "Jack-like tool" should neither be part of the OS nor a potentional "contribution" drawer.
If one wants to have that kind of software, there's always OS4Depot ;-)
People are dying.
Entire ecosystems are collapsing.
We are in the beginning of a mass extinction.
And all you can talk about is money and fairytales of eternal economic growth.
How dare you!
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HKvalhe
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Re: Jack-like tool as a standard in AmigaOS4

Post by HKvalhe »

My appologize, Raziel. I meant no harm. Yes, Amiga is unique and should remain unique, but also modern and state-of-the-art as much as possible.

Publishy? I might have spelled that wrong, but never mind about that now. Lets see what the future will bring, and that is up to the AmigaOS Team developers from Hyperion Entertainment, with Ssolie in the lead, nobody else.

I use Amiga because i love it. I will NEVER use Windows again...
Helge Kvalheim, Norway
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HKvalhe
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Re: Jack-like tool as a standard in AmigaOS4

Post by HKvalhe »

Raziel wrote:
HKvalhe wrote: [SNIP]...repetitive...[SNIP]

Like i said, i want the Amiga to become a big name again. I want it to be considered important, and MORE than a hobby system. A professional, serious system. I KNOW Amiga can do that again. It's not a question of IF, but WHEN.
And you really think you can achieve that by adding multi-use tools to the OS as contribution?
Well, me wonders then why Linux isn't the universal leading OS by now... :lol:

No, not Jack alone.Far from it. But still i want the Amiga to become a big name again, and to do that, a number of things have to be implemented, as well as improved. I think we can only imagine.
We must never forget what made the Amiga unique in the first place, and bring further on that experience. AmigaOS Team from Hyperion Entertainment have that experience, and i believe they can do it. That's another story.

Instead of trying to force your ideas of your "personal best" OS through developer channels and draw away resources you should start contributing by doing anything that adds something useful to the OS.

Start by creating a Contributions CD for AmigaOS4 the way you want it and try to get all the permissions for addition to that CD...

You can also paint icons, make music, create backdrops, heck you could even learn to port or code...

I'm sure i could have done all that. I wish i had the talent of a coder or a programmer. I'm merely an allround Amiga user, like most you see in the forums. My talents are into photo, some music and writing.
That's my philophosy, and it will be my philophosy until i die. Because i love the Amiga and always did. That will never change.

:roll:
It's a computer, man, a dead machine that neither will save world hunger nor bring world peace.
As i said, it's your life, if you want to commit your lifespan to your "philosophy" so be it.
Just stop waving your "philosophy" into everyones face that might think different...

I'm for the openess and freedom of choice. My intention was NEVER to force one philosophy into others, but to share different experiences and points. It's always better to have several alternatives of one thing than to only have ONE alternative.
And Raziel, don't take it personal, but even that you are right on many things, your lack of faith in the Amiga is VERY disturbing, and that's not good publishy.
I don't know what "publishy" is (probably something to eat or reindeer fur?)

That was bad or wrong mispelling, so nothing to think about, really. I meant to say i chose the wrong word, so sorry.

Regarding Public Relations...i'm in no way affiliated with any of the developers or creaters of AmigaOS4, just a mere user.
If being "VERY disturbing" in your world is the same as being realistic...well, i'd rather stay distrubing then.

What you choose is your own choice. Again, i will refer to the freedom of choice.

oh...and to get back on topic...imho Jack or a "Jack-like tool" should neither be part of the OS nor a potentional "contribution" drawer.
If one wants to have that kind of software, there's always OS4Depot ;-)
I know there is OS4Depot.net. It's great in most ways, but sometimes there happens to be an overload of different versions of same tool or program. Heck, even a mixture of good and bad versions into same category.
At that point, it can be very confusing and leave a mess.

Then again, perhaps a tool like Jack never was intent to be part of a Contribution? I agree that Jack could have been far faster and better programmed. I don't even think using Hollywood as a programming language is an ideal solution.
Hollywood wasn't intent to be a programming language. Hollywood is more like a multimedia application. That's ONE problem of Jack, as i know, and it's probably not getting better when relying on MUI Royale for the MUI functionality, as
MUI Royale in it's early stand is far too limited. It would have been better if tools like Jack actually was programmed in C, like most modern Amiga applications and functions today. I believe we all can agree on that, right?

Again, i'm sorry if i have offended you. The good think with this discussion is that we share different opinions of things and try to expand our experience. Let us just see what the future will bring, shall we? :)
Helge Kvalheim, Norway
AmigaOne 500 @ 1.15Ghz Samsung SSD 840 EVO 500GB, AmigaOS 4.1 Final, 2GB DDR2, Sapphire Radeon HD 6670 1GB GDDR5 PCI-E, ESI@Juli XTe PCIe audio
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samo79
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Re: Jack-like tool as a standard in AmigaOS4

Post by samo79 »

HKvalhe wrote:I know there is OS4Depot.net. It's great in most ways, but sometimes there happens to be an overload of different versions of same tool or program. Heck, even a mixture of good and bad versions into same category.
At that point, it can be very confusing and leave a mess.
I can't follow you here .. for what i can see 99,9% of the time anytime a new version (of the same tool) will be released, then the old version in OS4Depot repository will be overwritten, that's it
HKvalhe wrote:MUI Royale in it's early stand is far too limited. It would have been better if tools like Jack actually was programmed in C, like most modern Amiga applications and functions today. I believe we all can agree on that, right?
Agree, however imho the problem is not MUI Royale, in general the main problem (of any apps) is how an application is written
Latest version of Jack was improved a lot that to MUI, but sadly still slow in many parts
HKvalhe wrote:Again, i'm sorry if i have offended you. The good think with this discussion is that we share different opinions of things and try to expand our experience. Let us just see what the future will bring, shall we? :)
No one was offended, atleast me not for sure.
Anyone is free to express his opinion i think ;)
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HKvalhe
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Re: Jack-like tool as a standard in AmigaOS4

Post by HKvalhe »

samo79 wrote:
HKvalhe wrote:I know there is OS4Depot.net. It's great in most ways, but sometimes there happens to be an overload of different versions of same tool or program. Heck, even a mixture of good and bad versions into same category.
At that point, it can be very confusing and leave a mess.
I can't follow you here .. for what i can see 99,9% of the time anytime a new version (of the same tool) will be released, then the old version in OS4Depot repository will be overwritten, that's it
HKvalhe wrote:MUI Royale in it's early stand is far too limited. It would have been better if tools like Jack actually was programmed in C, like most modern Amiga applications and functions today. I believe we all can agree on that, right?
Agree, however imho the problem is not MUI Royale, in general the main problem (of any apps) is how an application is written
Latest version of Jack was improved a lot that to MUI, but sadly still slow in many parts
HKvalhe wrote:Again, i'm sorry if i have offended you. The good think with this discussion is that we share different opinions of things and try to expand our experience. Let us just see what the future will bring, shall we? :)
No one was offended, atleast me not for sure.
Anyone is free to express his opinion i think ;)
You're right. And about Jack, yeah, there are several problems with the new Jack. Well, using MUI will be very interesting, but as long as the main program language is Hollywood, then i suppose Jack will remain slow and somehow buggy. I can't really understand why Hollywood had to be used as a program language, instead of just choosing C, like most Amiga programs and functions use.

Ok, we have come a long way with this threat, so let see how things will develop. :) And it was Raziel i was worried to offend, so it was him i appologize to. :)
Helge Kvalheim, Norway
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samo79
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Re: Jack-like tool as a standard in AmigaOS4

Post by samo79 »

HKvalhe wrote:then i suppose Jack will remain slow and somehow buggy.
Hollywood or not bugs can be fixed, there are many stable Hollywood apps around, at the same time there are bad written apps
HKvalhe wrote:I can't really understand why Hollywood had to be used as a program language, instead of just choosing C, like most Amiga programs and functions use.
They use Hollywood because it's very easy to use, so you don't need to be a "real programmer" to develop an application
Also Hollywood give you automatically many multimedia facilities, not to mention the possibility to create multiplatform binaries with just a few or none modifications, so for many things Hollywood still a quite good tool.

But of course as any other tool it's not perfect and its strength is also its weakness, is stand for programmers to use it in the best way, based on what they plan to develop
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HKvalhe
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Re: Jack-like tool as a standard in AmigaOS4

Post by HKvalhe »

samo79 wrote:
HKvalhe wrote:then i suppose Jack will remain slow and somehow buggy.
Hollywood or not bugs can be fixed, there are many stable Hollywood apps around, at the same time there are bad written apps
HKvalhe wrote:I can't really understand why Hollywood had to be used as a program language, instead of just choosing C, like most Amiga programs and functions use.
They use Hollywood because it's very easy to use, so you don't need to be a "real programmer" to develop an application
Also Hollywood give you automatically many multimedia facilities, not to mention the possibility to create multiplatform binaries with just a few or none modifications, so for many things Hollywood still a quite good tool.

But of course as any other tool it's not perfect and its strength is also its weakness, is stand for programmers to use it in the best way, based on what they plan to develop
Never thought Hollywood is easy and good to use as a programming tool, and that one doesn't really have to be a programmer to get to know it. Hopefully, Hollywood will improve and then applications like Jack could become a better tool, as well as for other bad applications that would need improvements. :)
Helge Kvalheim, Norway
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Re: Jack-like tool as a standard in AmigaOS4

Post by djrikki »

Interesting thread :lol:

Anyway seen as though this seems to be all about Jack I'll add my two cents.

I don't have the inclination to learn C/C++, and besides there is no GUI builder, Hollywood allows me to build applications with GUIs quickly and easily and MUI Royale is awesome and being updated by Andreas all the time with my bug reports and feature requests thrown at him constantly.

Jack 4.0.1 is on OS4Depot.net (check Uploads first of course) and fixes many of the installation errors and bugs centered around Push4Dock.

@Kas1e, yes still a little slow on startup version 4.0.1, I need to get some caching in place for the next version, the main slowdown now centres around AppDir and the lack of AmigaOS Icon support in Hollywood.
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HKvalhe
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Re: Jack-like tool as a standard in AmigaOS4

Post by HKvalhe »

djrikki wrote:Interesting thread :lol:

Anyway seen as though this seems to be all about Jack I'll add my two cents.

I don't have the inclination to learn C/C++, and besides there is no GUI builder, Hollywood allows me to build applications with GUIs quickly and easily and MUI Royale is awesome and being updated by Andreas all the time with my bug reports and feature requests thrown at him constantly.

Jack 4.0.1 is on OS4Depot.net (check Uploads first of course) and fixes many of the installation errors and bugs centered around Push4Dock.

@Kas1e, yes still a little slow on startup version 4.0.1, I need to get some caching in place for the next version, the main slowdown now centres around AppDir and the lack of AmigaOS Icon support in Hollywood.
I'll give the new Jack 4.0.1 a test, since i have a backup :) I also have MUI Royale installed in SYS:Utilities, as suggested by somebody :) Hopefully this version of MUI Jack should work :) Always room for improvement :) I'm sure Hollywood also will improve in time.
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