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JPEG DataType

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:58 pm
by Tuxedo
Hello ALL,
I noticed that AmigaOS4.x JPEG DataType cant load big pictures...
I tryed a 8804x8804 JPEG and MultiView tell me "out of memory"...
But Trying to show the image with WarpView I get no problem so theres something woprng with DataTypes I think...
Anyone noticed that?

Thank you!

EIDT: the image I tryed was:

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA08353.jpg


EDIT2: I also tryed WarpJPEG DataType and get same problem...maybe was a problem of whole DT system rather than only JPEG itlself?

Re: JPEG DataType [EDIT]

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:13 pm
by xenic
@Tuxedo
I don't think there is a datatype problem. Multiview shows images at full size. On my system it took about 20 seconds to display the image. It used up about 468MB of my memory for the program, buffer and image. The image is at least 8 times as large as my screen so Multiview has scrollbars to view different parts of the image. The image is extremely detailed but looks like it was assembled from strips of smaller images. If you don't have 1GB memory like my SAM Flex, then Multiview is telling you the truth; you don't have enough memory to display the image. Other programs that display the image are probably scaling it down to screen size to display it.

Re: JPEG DataType [EDIT]

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:16 pm
by Tuxedo
I've 2GB on my Peg2...
On AW in that thread:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/vie ... 9&forum=14

seems that we catch the problem...
Maybe some dev can tell us if he "problem" can be "fixed" in future?

Thank you!

Re: JPEG DataType [EDIT]

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:22 pm
by xenic
Tuxedo wrote:I've 2GB on my Peg2...
On AW in that thread:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/vie ... 9&forum=14

seems that we catch the problem...
Maybe some dev can tell us if he "problem" can be "fixed" in future?
I looked at that thread and didn't see anyone else state that they could not display the image in Multiview to confirm the problem. Someone in that thread did say that Tetisoft suggested that it might be a graphics card issue. I do find it annoying that instead of trying to load that picture to confirm your problem they just give links to similar issues and discuss what the cause might be. That thread doesn't really confirm your problem. What you really need is for others to try loading that image to confirm the problem.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I am able to load the picture in Multiview and display it. It is agonizingly slow and seems to use far more memory than it should. I don't know how datatypes work but I suspect that jpeg.datatype is decoding the picture to memory as a 32 bit image and then picture.datatype copies it to a display bitmap. That's about the only way I can think of to account for the amount of memory that my system used to display that image.

The fact that I can display the image in my 1GB SAM means that you should be able to display it on a 2GB Peg2. It might be helpful if someone else with a Peg2 could try that picture and confirm your problem.

Re: JPEG DataType

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:19 pm
by Tuxedo
MAny other ppl tryed te image and no one can load it in MultiView...
each get the "out of memory" erorr...

Dunno why you can load it without problems...
Are you using any non standard picture.datatype or jpeg.datatype?
Or some esotic MultiView config?

Re: JPEG DataType [EDIT]

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:04 am
by Bender
xenic wrote:It might be helpful if someone else with a Peg2 could try that picture and confirm your problem.
I can confirm using a Peg2 with 2GB RAM and update 4. I downloaded the image and tried to open it using MultiView. The result I got after some seconds of waiting is an empty MultiView window with scrollbars (because of the big image size, I suppose) and "Not enough memory available" as the window's title.

Regards,

Re: JPEG DataType

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:35 am
by Tuxedo
@Bender

however some guy tryed also on Sam440, Sam460 and A1XE@800 and all get "out of memory" error...
All them tryed with muy LoView program(using WPA output) and it works also if really slow compared to same pic loaded under MOS with LoView...
Just to compare:

LoView under AmigaOS4.x with USEWPA argument(without you get the "put of memory "error) take 11.2 secs to load(only load time was measured not the display time

LoView under MOS 2.7 without USEWPA(seems that with CyberGFX wasnt needed that) take: 5 secs

Since that was really weir dto my knowledge I make another test...

I tryed with another image:
http://www.v12-gt.com/var/v12gt/storage ... -jante.jpg

and tryed also that and get (without USEWPA that wasnt needed):

AOS 4.1.4 : 5.5 secs
MOS 2.7 : 4.10 secs

now I've tested with http://www.hd-rec.de/Archive/ImageConverter.lha program with params: imageconverter INSER_PICTURE_PATH_HERE -w 128 -h 128 -od ram:

well the results was really weird...

the program says me that it take 4.36 secs to load the image so was about 1 sec faster than LoView that loads the image with datatype like it...I tought that maybe was because that program dont have to load the image in video ram to display it maybe...however under MOS the time measured was also shorter...

Machine for test was:

Pegasos2 g$@1131 - RAM 2GB - Radeon9000pro

However the difference loading the moon image was really TOO big imho...

Re: JPEG DataType

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:18 pm
by Tuxedo
@xenic

are you using a 16bit screen mode?

As explainde on topic:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/vie ... 9&forum=14

I imagine that was the reason...

Re: JPEG DataType

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:44 pm
by xenic
Tuxedo wrote:@xenic

are you using a 16bit screen mode?

As explainde on topic:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/vie ... 9&forum=14

I imagine that was the reason...
Yes. You're right. I have several frequently used programs that don't work well with 32bit screens so I use 16bit screens for everything. I can't see the difference between 16bit and 32bit images (maybe because I'm partially color-blind) and if others can't see the difference, I don't know why they bother with 32bit screens. 16bit seems to have the added advantage of being able to view large images like the one in question.

I would add that no normal camera will take pictures that large. 8804x8804 is over 77 megapixels when even the latest commercial cameras have about 16 megapixels. If you view that image with a 16bit screen you can tell that it is assembled from photo strips. Apparently even NASA doesn't have a camera that can take a picture with that resolution that shows the entire moon. Isn't a little unreasonable to expect to be able to view an image that large on an Amiga? There will always be an image size limit on every computer system. I would expect that computers with 4GB+ system memory and graphics cards with huge memories will always be able to display larger images.

Re: JPEG DataType

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:43 pm
by Tuxedo
Hi,
well...I think the image was formed by several image strip because it was "stitched" from some satellite photos...Was pretty impossible to have such a big and defined photo from a single shot I think...
However I think also that on a computer in 2012 was not so right to have still a '90 limitation in displaying images...
Also consider that MysticView and WarpView ws already able tu displayt the image since their different approach in reading data(MysticView from datatypes and WarpView custom), so I dont se the problem...
Probably OS4 guys will solve all that issues(size limit and decoding speed) when they will work on new 2D system...however I hope that will happen really soon since that bad workbench behaviour was not so nice imho...
Also hope that someone will tell us if thaere effecticely plans to solve that issues...
Isn't a little unreasonable to expect to be able to view an image that large on an Amiga?
Absolutely no! Since my main system was AmigaOS4.1.4 and I want to do almost everything with it!