Roadshow TCP/IPv4 to include IPv6?

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Re: Roadshow TCP/IPv4 to include IPv6?

Postby Rotzloeffel » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:00 pm

Elwood wrote:Sorry to tell you that, if I remember correctly, IPV6 as well as WLAN require a complete rewrite of the stack. So it's a 3 years work at least.
Then I don't know how this can happen in a reasonable timeframe.


Roadshow is based on an old IPStack of NetBSD.... so the actual ipstack for NetBSD-amiga can handle ipV6 without problems..... so yes, it is work for Olsen....but 3 Years? I don´t think so....
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Re: Roadshow TCP/IPv4 to include IPv6?

Postby NinjaCyborg » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:47 pm

I was both at Lancaster University in the UK where they developed the IPv6 stack that became Microsoft's Windows IPv6 stack, and at Symbian where we spent the best part of $10million developing an IPv6 stack. I think it's pretty unlikely we'll ever get one an Amiga IPv6 stack even if you could reuse code from one of the BSDs because Amiga is missing most of the dependencies of a modern Unix. As brilliant as Olsen is I doubt he wants to spend 100 man years of effort building one for a resource constrained computer. The good news is, you'll never ever need it for an Amiga personal computer. It will always be possible to have a local IPv4 LAN behind your DSL router or 4G modem and let the router do the IPv6 work.
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Re: Roadshow TCP/IPv4 to include IPv6?

Postby kolla » Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:45 pm

NinjaCyborg wrote: The good news is, you'll never ever need it for an Amiga personal computer. It will always be possible to have a local IPv4 LAN behind your DSL router or 4G modem and let the router do the IPv6 work.


Using what router, using what protocols? I have yet to see any transition protocol for ipv4-only clients, from IETF it is clear that clients are supposed to do ipv6 while providers may linger with ipv4 for a while.
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Re: Roadshow TCP/IPv4 to include IPv6?

Postby NinjaCyborg » Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:55 pm

Using NAT, you ignorant fuck
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Re: Roadshow TCP/IPv4 to include IPv6?

Postby Rigo » Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:22 pm

Let's try and keep this civil, shall we?

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Re: Roadshow TCP/IPv4 to include IPv6?

Postby kolla » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:35 pm

NinjaCyborg wrote:Using NAT, you ignorant fuck


Which NAT? NAT64, for example, is for IPv6 clients to reach IPv4 services - not the orher way around.

And as for calling me to ignorant, I have worked with IPv6 for more than 20 years, 17 of them professionally.
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Re: Roadshow TCP/IPv4 to include IPv6?

Postby Raziel » Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:43 pm

@kolla

So, if my router can do IPv4 to IPv6 "tunneling" (i think it's called) would that work?
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Re: Roadshow TCP/IPv4 to include IPv6?

Postby kolla » Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:28 am

Raziel wrote:@kolla

So, if my router can do IPv4 to IPv6 "tunneling" (i think it's called) would that work?


No, that does not solve anything - even if it can tunnel IPv4 over IPv6 (mostly it is the opposite that is desired), it needs an endpoint for that tunnel, and there is still no way for the IPv4 client to reach any IPv6 resources online, except via tricks like using web proxies etc. In the meantime, there are plenty of ways for IPv6-only clients to reach not just the IPv6, but also all IPv4 resources, via NAT64/DNS64, 464XLAT etc. The only hope would be router supporting something akin to DS-Lite on a router-level... and hence my question, what protocols would the all too often mentioned magic routers actually use, and what routers are these who do this?

Please feel free to educate yourself on IPv6/IPv4 mess...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6_transition_mechanism
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Re: Roadshow TCP/IPv4 to include IPv6?

Postby Raziel » Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:58 am

@kolla

I see, thanks for the link.

'm using a FritzBox and since it's based on linux it "should" be possible to implement one of these (WrapSix,TAYGA, Jool) to make it work for IPv4-only targets?
The only problem would be, that AVM (the FritzBox developer) wouldn't want to waste time and money on such a task, since 99% of it's users have target machines that already can do IPv6 by themselves.

The other possibility i see (although not really achievable) would be to place some small system (RPi) inbetween the router/internet and Amiga and let it do all the dirty work providing only the websites? (That could also negate the need of AmiSSL stuff being done on the target system - i read somewhere -)

Would it be possible to create (or is there already) a PCI/PCIe card that does exactly that and could simply be plugged into the Amiga? :-)
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Re: Roadshow TCP/IPv4 to include IPv6?

Postby kolla » Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:14 pm

Raziel wrote:I'm using a FritzBox and since it's based on linux it "should" be possible to implement one of these (WrapSix,TAYGA, Jool) to make it work for IPv4-only targets?


Those are NAT64 implementations, which makes it possible for you to run your LAN clients IPv6-only, and still be able to reach IPv4 services "out there".

What Amiga needs, is the oppsite - IPv4-only LAN, being able to reach IPv6 services "out there", and though it is not entirely impossible, it is not something anyone wish to do, as it requires quite a bit of thinking (IPv6 is more than just "more addresses", it also involves changes in ICMP, MTU, requires multicast, etc etc - it really is a whole new version of TCP/IP, as the name also implies. Those who just say "NAT, you ignorant fuck", are showing HUGE ignorance and utter lack of understanding of how IPv6 works.

The only problem would be, that AVM (the FritzBox developer) wouldn't want to waste time and money on such a task, since 99% of it's users have target machines that already can do IPv6 by themselves.


Exactly. And this is where certain people in the Amiga community prefer to stick their heads in the sand and pretend that "it will be fixed by router" - no, it will not be fixed by router, legacy IPv4 support is something less than a percentage of "most users" will need, and there is no guarantee that ISPs will support IPv4 by default - I can imagine that they will rather sell it as an extra servers, as it takes a bit of effort to support both IPv4 and IPv6.

The other possibility i see (although not really achievable) would be to place some small system (RPi) inbetween the router/internet and Amiga and let it do all the dirty work providing only the websites? (That could also negate the need of AmiSSL stuff being done on the target system - i read somewhere -)

This is what I do, all my Amiga systems have rpi zeros installed, IPv4 with RFC1918 address between Amiga and Pi, and Pi providing web-proxy, "man-in-the-middle"-type SSL-proxy, jump-host between rsh/rlogin/telnet and ssh, ftp-proxy etc. Configuring and maintaining such a raspberry-pi setup is way out of league for most Amiga users though, I'm sure.

Would it be possible to create (or is there already) a PCI/PCIe card that does exactly that and could simply be plugged into the Amiga? :-)


My A3000 has a RasperryPi plugged into one of the ISA slots (via adapter), but just to get 5V :)
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